The Ayaan Hirsi Ali Podcast

Andrew Roberts | EP16

Why societies need heroes and villains

17 Jun 2025

Ayaan is joined by Andrew Roberts, widely regarded as the world’s best biographer and one of the leading historians of our time. His books about Churchill, Hitler, and Napoleon are cited as the most comprehensive and well-researched works in existence. Andrew talks to Ayaan about the damage being done by DIY historians who are attempting to sanitize history’s villains and tarnish the reputations of its heroes. He explains how societies break down when people do not have a shared identity and mythology, and why the extreme right and extreme left are becoming allies in this dangerous political moment.

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